Women in Ministry
I am asked for my opinion on women in ministry from time to time. Just this morning I was asked and thought I would relay my thoughts on this subject here.
This is a great question and one that very smart and committed Christians disagree about, whether they are men or women. Up front, I am for people teaching and preaching who are gifted to do so. I don't care if they are men or women. If they are gifted by God, then they should do it. That doesn't address what the Bible says, though, and I always want my beliefs to line up with Scripture. So, here's the longer answer as to why I support women teaching. Please feel free to disagree, ask questions, and dialog further.
First, we see women in leadership and teaching roles in the New Testament. Priscilla helps to instruct Apollos (Acts 18:26), a man who worked at planting churches. Phoebe is a deacon (servant) of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). Junias is mentioned as an apostle (Romans 16:8).
Second, Acts 2:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:5 have women prophesying (speaking God's words). Acts is the fulfillment of Joel's vision from the Old Testament. 1 Corinthians has odd instructions about how to pray and prophesy, saying that women should have their heads covered, but it has them prophesying, nonetheless.
Third, two passages seem to teach that women should not lead or preach in churches. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 says that if women have questions, they should ask their husbands at home, because it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church. This seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? I don't think so. First, read 1 Corinthians 11:5 where women are speaking in church! So, what's going on here? The word for women that Paul uses could also mean 'wife,' which it likely does since Paul is speaking about asking their husbands. Paul wants the people to prophesy in turn so that people can think about what is said (verse 29) and so that not everyone is speaking up at once (verses 30-31). Paul wants there to be order in worship. So, think about it like this: Men and women have been prophesying to each other all through the service (11:5). At one point a man stands up to prophesy in his turn. His wife, having questions about what he said, starts questioning him right away, interrupting him. Paul says, "If a wife has a question, ask it at home." It's not a matter of women never speaking in church, but keeping order in worship services.
The other passage is 1 Timothy 2:8-15. Paul gives instructions to men and then to women. Men shouldn't be angry in worship and dispute and fight with one another. Women shouldn't impress with their hair and clothes, but with their lives. Also, women should learn, submitting to what is taught them. How do we understand this? First, remember that Paul is writing to Timothy, reminding Timothy that he is the teacher. This is important because lots of women in Ephesus were teachers in other temples of false gods and idols. When they became Christians, they would naturally teach and be in authority because of their gifts, but they still needed to learn and not be in authority. They didn't know enough to teach yet, so Paul says he doesn't permit women to teach or have authority. You can also translate this, "I am not permitting...", which implies that this advice would only be temporary. Would Paul have permitted women to teach once they had been sufficiently grounded in God's interaction with the Jews and the story of Jesus? I think so.
This is a great question and one that very smart and committed Christians disagree about, whether they are men or women. Up front, I am for people teaching and preaching who are gifted to do so. I don't care if they are men or women. If they are gifted by God, then they should do it. That doesn't address what the Bible says, though, and I always want my beliefs to line up with Scripture. So, here's the longer answer as to why I support women teaching. Please feel free to disagree, ask questions, and dialog further.
First, we see women in leadership and teaching roles in the New Testament. Priscilla helps to instruct Apollos (Acts 18:26), a man who worked at planting churches. Phoebe is a deacon (servant) of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). Junias is mentioned as an apostle (Romans 16:8).
Second, Acts 2:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:5 have women prophesying (speaking God's words). Acts is the fulfillment of Joel's vision from the Old Testament. 1 Corinthians has odd instructions about how to pray and prophesy, saying that women should have their heads covered, but it has them prophesying, nonetheless.
Third, two passages seem to teach that women should not lead or preach in churches. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 says that if women have questions, they should ask their husbands at home, because it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church. This seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? I don't think so. First, read 1 Corinthians 11:5 where women are speaking in church! So, what's going on here? The word for women that Paul uses could also mean 'wife,' which it likely does since Paul is speaking about asking their husbands. Paul wants the people to prophesy in turn so that people can think about what is said (verse 29) and so that not everyone is speaking up at once (verses 30-31). Paul wants there to be order in worship. So, think about it like this: Men and women have been prophesying to each other all through the service (11:5). At one point a man stands up to prophesy in his turn. His wife, having questions about what he said, starts questioning him right away, interrupting him. Paul says, "If a wife has a question, ask it at home." It's not a matter of women never speaking in church, but keeping order in worship services.
The other passage is 1 Timothy 2:8-15. Paul gives instructions to men and then to women. Men shouldn't be angry in worship and dispute and fight with one another. Women shouldn't impress with their hair and clothes, but with their lives. Also, women should learn, submitting to what is taught them. How do we understand this? First, remember that Paul is writing to Timothy, reminding Timothy that he is the teacher. This is important because lots of women in Ephesus were teachers in other temples of false gods and idols. When they became Christians, they would naturally teach and be in authority because of their gifts, but they still needed to learn and not be in authority. They didn't know enough to teach yet, so Paul says he doesn't permit women to teach or have authority. You can also translate this, "I am not permitting...", which implies that this advice would only be temporary. Would Paul have permitted women to teach once they had been sufficiently grounded in God's interaction with the Jews and the story of Jesus? I think so.
Labels: ministry
posted by Aaron Perry at
12:11 PM
15 Comments:
I am with you in what you said, but I'm still not quite concrete on the issue b/c of verses 13-14 in the Timothy passage. It seems, there, that Paul is giving an explanation for verse 12 that is far from cultural, it goes back to the time of creation.
Hey Matthew,
That's a great question. I don't know if you followed the discussion on Facebook, but here's my response, copied from there.
Perhaps your idea of the universality of this command can be flipped on its head, as Howard Marshall does. He says that it's at least possible that Paul ... Read Morewas correcting a misinterpretation of Genesis 1 among the local Ephesians. Perhaps the local women, familiar with priestesses of Artemis, saw teaching as the only or main calling for women. Paul, on the other hand, provides another (though I don't think only) faithful vocation for women: having children. Perhaps the story Paul has chosen is not to make this teaching universal, but makes it exclusively particular.
I think there is a difference between "women in ministry" and "women as 'head pastors'" (or the like), at least in the majority of cases. Do you think there is a distinction? Is a "helper" woman described in marriage or Genesis similar to women in church?
Hi Clay,
Yes, I think there is a difference, but when I said 'women in ministry' I meant, or at least included the possibility of women as lead pastors. I could have been clearer.
Regarding Genesis, it's important to note that the first mention of humans is in terms of their ruling over the world--together (Gen 1:26-31). In Gen 2 the helper is in this context--helping to do the original work God had created them to do. So, 'helper' is fine, so long as one interprets it in the togetherness of Gen. 1. In other words, I'm not sure I could say the woman was a helper, but the man was not.
As this pertains to marriage, I think helping is a perfect example of mutual submission (Eph 5:21).
As it pertains to the church, then, I think the idea of servant leadership as modeled by Jesus is not found in only one sex, but in both.
This is a great discussion, Aaron. My husband and I are in the church hunting process, and the one we feel most sure of has one issue we've struggled with: the Executive Pastor is a woman. And in our time attending, she has given the sermon an equal number of times as the senior pastor (male). We've been uncomfortable with this, yet struggle to find the Biblical standards set for women in church leadership. Part of me still feels like it's just not right, yet the scriptures you've put together don't really back those feelings up Biblically-speaking...But my thought is that if the man is to be the spiritual head of the HOUSEHOLD, wouldn't we we be to assume that this applies to the church as well?
Hi Kayla,
Thanks for writing. Just for clarity, what do you mean that the man is the spiritual head of the household? What does that involve?
Well, basically, this article is what I have always understood it to mean:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6512094/Spiritual-Leadership
Hi Kayla,
I read the article--perhaps not as carefully as I should have--but I still don't quite know what spiritual leadership or authority means. The author affirms it and gives warnings for when it is not followed, but I don't know what it entails. Does it mean that the husband leads prayer? The husband provides the meaning of Scripture? The husband says where they go to church?
Basically, that the husband is responsible for the spiritual well-being of his household. Does that make sense? Not necessarily that he makes a decision and that's "how it is" and such, as I believe the wife is to be allowed input and counsel, but my understanding of it is that the husband is to be held accountible for the spiritual health of his family...I hope that's making sense...that's about all the sense I, myself, have really ever been able to make of it (I do not come from a strong scriptural background)
Here's some scriptures that have been used in teachiing this concept (in my own experiences):
1 Corinthians 11:3 says, “But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.” Paul in Ephesians 5:22, 23 echoes this truth by instructing, “Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as Christ also is head of the church, He Himself being Savior of the body.”
Here's another article that seems to line up with what I have always been told (read it this time!;):
http://www.faithbiblechurch.us/articles.html "Dad, the Pastor of the Home"
Hi Kayla,
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this. It's not necessarily about strong scriptural background as people as committed to God, his Church, and Scripture disagree strongly. That being said, I will keep encouraging you to look into Scripture to formulate your beliefs. So, with that, what comes next is meant to challenge--not to give up what you think, but to submit it to Scripture.
When you say the husband is responsible for the spiritual wellbeing of his household, does this mean if his children fail spiritually, he bears fault? What if the wife fails? Does this mean Jesus is responsible for his church's failings? Perhaps we could say that the husband is responsible for 'setting the tone' for his family, which, I think, amounts to being self-controlled and led by the Spirit. Of course, women are given the same direction and so I see a partnership in setting the tone and carrying out that tone by both people. What do you think?
Thanks for the references, Kayla. Let's look at them a little deeper. The 1 Cor. passage is all brought to a head in v. 12: both sexes are subject to God. And this follows on Paul's affirmation that they are both mutually dependent. So, again, we have to make sense of what it means to say the man is the head of the woman. What does that mean? It obviously can't mean his superiority, as this would imply Paul saying that God is superior to Christ. But this is in the context of leading worship--not the home--and some more context is given in the blog. In other words, if the problem Paul is addressing (disorder in worship) goes away, what do we do with the teaching? Where do we turn?
To Eph 5:22-23, it all begins with Eph 5:21: Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. And the admonition Paul has for men is to give themselves up for their wives. So, again, I have to ask, what does headship mean here? It seems that headship means being the first to give up one's power.
Let's go on to the article. (I did read the first one, but it was not one that was putting forth an argument to be critiqued, as much as sharing reflections.) First, the author uses an argument from silence. He mentions Eph 6:4 and says this means fathers "are singled out as having the ultimate responsibility." That's simply not what the verse says. It gives instruction to fathers, but none to mothers. Perhaps the mothers were already doing what Paul wanted the fathers to do. As such it could easily be read as, "Fathers...help your wives!"
He then uses the example of the military and how order helps increase effectiveness. But this is clearly not parallel to Paul's command for people in the church to submit to one another. Indeed, Jesus is the strangest military commander who didn't call on his army to come to his aid.
Finally, the author closes with great advice: set the example of godliness; help your family into a Bible-teaching church; get scripture into your daily life; pray regularly at home; confront sin in the home. I cannot disagree with any of that! It's all great advice. So great, in fact, that I expect we'd agree it's good for women, too. :)
So, then, you're saying that there is nothing Scripturally that implies there is anything wrong with a woman being the pastor of a church, right?
That's correct. I see it as part of the practical implication of the mutuality of creation and the partnership of man and woman and the implication of the unity in Jesus (e.g., Galatians 3:26).
Well done AP... you are thoughtful, biblical and respectful in your replies.
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